The following interview took place on 09 November 2016 at the KCCUK, as part of the 2016 London Korean Film Festival.

Interview:

Hangul Celluloid: If I could start by asking about 'Declaration of Idiot' (1983), a very unique, even experimental, film that has become almost the definition of postmodern Korean cinema: I believe the film was originally conceived as a sequel to 'Children of Darkness Part 1' (1981) but the script was considered - and I quote - "too intent on exposing the darker aspects of society". Could you tell us a little about that situation and how this too dark sequel eventually became 'Declaration of Idiot'?

Lee Jang-ho: As you may know, 'A Good Windy Day' (1980) was the first of my films to deal with social realism, while I used 'Come Down to a Lower Place' (1982) to tackle issues relating to the very bottom of society. So, in 'Children of Darkness' I deliberately tried to make very strong social criticisms but in the aftermath censorship intensified and film policy changed to protect the public face of Korea. There was also a quota system at the time so Korean directors had almost a responsibility to make films. Initially I was going to make 'Children of Darkness' a trilogy, but by the time I submitted my script for part two censorship had increased hugely and it was rejected. So, I had to veil my social criticism in a script that was outwardly less dark and that led to many of the experimental aspects you mention, but again and again the rejections came. Even when they accepted the story they weren't happy with the title and that led to numerous name changes and, again, rejections. I was frankly so angry and frustrated by the system at the time that I considered giving up completely and, as such, part of me actually wanted to make a film that would end my career and I deliberately tried to include aspects that were as far away from what was considered good cinema at the time, almost in protest. Little did I know how well received 'Declaration of idiot' would be and how those very aspects would come to be considered groundbreaking, it was an utter shock to me.


Hangul Celluloid: Was it standard practice for scripts at the time to have to be submitted for censor approval and how long did that requirement continue?

Lee Jang-ho: This censorship issue - script submission etc. - really began in the colonial period and it continued through subsequent governments becoming especially severe during Park Chung-hee's regime. Even during Kim Young-sam's regime in the 90s the process was still going on, only ending just before modern Korean cinema as we know it today began to explode in popularity. The ending of one led to the beginning of the other.


Hangul Celluloid: The 80s is seen by many as the period of sexual awakening in Korean cinema. During that decade you made a number of sexually provocative films such as 'Between the Knees' and 'Eoh Wu-dong'. Considering their sexual content, how difficult was it to get those films past the censors?

Lee Jang-ho: At that time, censorship was such that social criticism wasn't really allowed but the government was far more generous when it came to ideas of sexual expression. I guess censorship had left me wandering lost with no idea of how to move forward and depicting sexuality almost shone a light for me in seeing a path. Not only that, but the frustrations I mentioned earlier had made me want to step away from the difficulties of scripts with social critique and I found that depictions of sexuality allowed me to say things I subsequently realised I really wanted and needed to say, regardless of the fact that they were easier to get censor approval for.


Hangul Celluloid: If we compare that period in Korean cinema with the present day, in the last few years there has been a trend of labelling films as erotic and including sex scenes, in some cases just for the sake of it. What are your thoughts on the increasing use and increasing strength of sexual content and ideas in Korean cinema today?

Lee Jang-ho: When I was making 'Between the Knees' and 'Eoh Wu-dong' I felt that the use of sexuality was a great way to express ideas of anti-establishment and resistance to the government. As you said, sex really came to the fore in Korean cinema in the 80s and I personally felt it had the inherent energy to strongly accent my critiques and criticisms. I thought sexual depictions by their very nature stood as wholly anti-establishment and screamed of resistance to governmental control. I think increasing sexuality in cinema in general is wholly natural and as long as it is not wholly gratuitous these aspects can say a great deal about society and its changes over the years. I'm still very interested in the use of sexuality in films and in fact I'm currently trying to put together a project based on The Vagina Monologues... but it's such a difficult task.


Hangul Celluloid: Here in the UK, a film has recently been released called 'The Lovers and the Despot', detailing the story of director Shin Sang-ok and actress Choi Eun-hee and their abduction to North Korea by Kim Jung-il. The film contains a video interview with you - did you do that interview specifically for the film or was it an earlier interview - archive footage - that they used?

Lee Jang-ho: Yes, the filmmakers did contact me for an interview, so I was aware of the film from the very outset and since I began my career working with Shin Sang-ok I was really interested in being involved. I think it's an important story. Also, the producer of 'The Last Emperor' is an Englishman who wants to make another film about Shin Sang-ok and I was contacted about that too, but as yet it hasn't been quite followed up.


Hangul Celluloid: As you mentioned, you began as an assistant director for Shin Sang-ok. As 'The Lovers and the Despot' includes a taped recording of Kim Jung-il admitting he abducted Shin Sang-ok and Choi Eun-hee the question of whether they were telling the truth has finally been resolved, but did you ever question whether they had really been abducted or had gone to the North voluntarily?

Lee Jang-ho: At the time, Shin Sang-ok wasn't allowed to make films in Korea and in fact the government had shut down his company, Shin Films. At that point, I wasn't really making films either so when we met for lunch at one time we talked about these difficulties and we even said that perhaps the only way we could make films again would be if North and South Korea once again became united. Shortly after that, Choi Eun-hee was kidnapped and Shin deliberately put himself in danger by going to Hong Kong with the express purpose of being spotted by the North, in a effort to try to save her. As you know, Shin was put in a concentration camp for a number of year in North Korea and personally I was always wholly sure that it really was a kidnap. I never had any doubts whatsoever.


Hangul Celluloid: I'm being asked to wrap things up, but as a final question: Considering the current political climate in Korea and the fact that several films and documentaries detailing social issues and events have recently been banned, do you feel it is as difficult today to make films containing harsh social critiques as it was during the strict censorship of the 70s and 80s?

Lee Jang-ho: Back in the 70s and 80s while there certainly was strict censorship, I feel it was less so, in a way, than it is today. Even though the censorship policy may be essentially the same, many of the people who have made films with social critiques recently have been made to pay for it in one way or another far more than those in the 70s and 80s. One example is the issues surrounding 'The Diving Bell' at Busan. I felt the punishment and the noise, if you will, around that film was unnecessary and way too big. It was ultimately the Park regime that chose to make that a far bigger deal than it needed to be and in a way the whole dilemma has almost itself become an attack on the Park regime.


Hangul Celluloid: Thank you for taking the time to talk to me.